Episode 144

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Published on:

18th Nov 2025

Autism, Microbiomes, & Mice Burying Marbles with Kevin Mitchell

This week, we are joined by Kevin Mitchell, Associate Professor of Genetics and Neuroscience at Trinity College Dublin, who has committed the unforgivable sin of pointing out that an entire academic and media hype cycle might be built on… well, very little actually. His new co-authored paper in Neuron politely dismantles the highly promoted link between the gut microbiome and autism, which turns out to rest on flawed studies, contradictory findings, creative statistics, and a touching faith in mice burying marbles.

Kevin walks us through the joys of observational studies that don’t replicate, mouse experiments that don't make sense, and clinical trials where there is no blinding and no control wing, and shockingly, everyone reports feeling better. Meanwhile, journalists and wellness gurus eagerly report each new “breakthrough”, unburdened by any concerns about the strength of evidence or methodological robustness.

In the end, the microbiome–autism connection looks less like a sturdy scientific stool and more like three damp twigs taped together by optimism and marketing departments.

We finish, naturally, by dragging Matt back out of his panpsychism phase and asking whether consciousness is really fundamental to the universe or just something that happens in podcasters who haven’t slept enough.

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About the Podcast

Decoding the Gurus
A psychologist and an anthropologist try to make sense of the world's greatest self-declared Gurus.
An exiled Northern Irish anthropologist and a hitchhiking Australian psychologist take a close look at the contemporary crop of 'secular gurus', iconoclasts, and other exiles from the mainstream, offering their own brands of unique takes and special insights.

Leveraging two of the most diverse accents in modern podcasting, Chris and Matt dig deep into the claims, peek behind the psychological curtains, and try to figure out once and for all... What's it all About?

Join us, as we try to puzzle our way through and talk some smart-sounding smack about the intellectual giants of our age, from Jordan Peterson to Robin DiAngelo. Are they revolutionary thinkers or just grifters with delusions of grandeur?

Join us and let's find out!
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About your hosts

Christopher Kavanagh

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A Northern Irish cognitive anthropologist who occasionally moonlights as a social psychologist. Chris has long standing interests in the psychology of conspiracy theorists and pseudoscience. His academic research focuses on the Cognitive Science of Religion and ritual psychology. He lives happily in Japan with his family.

Matthew Browne

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An Australian psychologist and numbers-guy. He does research on all kinds of stuff, but particularly enjoys looking into why people believe the things they do: religion, conspiracy theories, alternative medicine and stuff. He's into social media in the same way people slow down for car accidents.